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Ephedrine is legal again right?
- Thread starter jdynasty
- Start date
I do it on occaision it is just so freaking expensive these days compared to other products.
I am not a legal expert and I to hear conflicting stories. All I know is that I can go to CVS and buy it in Bronkaid but I have to show ID. That is ephedrine.
I can still get ephedra from a local healthstore chain. The owner claims that he can legally sell it. He does it openly. Cops, lawyers, and politicians all shop in his store and he puts on his outdoor sign, "Ephedra sold here."
Yet if you go to the FDA site you will see this (note this applies to dietary supplements only not medicine):
Sales of Supplements Containing Ephedrine Alkaloids (Ephedra) Prohibited
Dietary supplements that contain ephedra have been banned in the United States since April 2004. FDA banned the products after it determined that ephedra posed an unreasonable risk to those who used it.
Ephedra, also called Ma huang, is a plant or herb that contains ephedrine, a substance that is regulated by FDA as a drug when created chemically in the lab. As such, it is subject to strict federal standards for safety and effectiveness. However, ephedra has generally been marketed as an ingredient in dietary supplements, which are not bound by the same strict standards as drugs. Nevertheless, under a 1994 law, FDA can remove a dietary supplement from the market if it creates an unreasonable risk of illness or injury.
FDA has long regarded ephedra-based dietary supplements as potential health hazards. Substantial evidence of harm emerged in 2003, when a major study reported more than 16,000 adverse events associated with the use of ephedra-containing dietary supplements, including heart palpitations, tremors and insomnia. The study also found little evidence that ephedra is effective in boosting physical activities and weight loss -- as claimed by its promoters. FDA subsequently determined that ephedra presents an unreasonable risk of illness or injury. On April 12, 2004, the agency's final rule prohibiting the sale of dietary supplements containing ephedra went into effect.
Update: On May 14, 2007, the Supreme Court denied certiorari in the case of Nutraceutical Corp vs. von Eschenbach. The denial of certiorari means that the Supreme Court declines to review the Aug. 17, 2006, decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit that upheld FDA's 2004 regulation banning dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids. Accordingly, the Tenth Circuit's decision stands and the regulation is in full force.
I am not a legal expert and I to hear conflicting stories. All I know is that I can go to CVS and buy it in Bronkaid but I have to show ID. That is ephedrine.
I can still get ephedra from a local healthstore chain. The owner claims that he can legally sell it. He does it openly. Cops, lawyers, and politicians all shop in his store and he puts on his outdoor sign, "Ephedra sold here."
Yet if you go to the FDA site you will see this (note this applies to dietary supplements only not medicine):
Sales of Supplements Containing Ephedrine Alkaloids (Ephedra) Prohibited
Dietary supplements that contain ephedra have been banned in the United States since April 2004. FDA banned the products after it determined that ephedra posed an unreasonable risk to those who used it.
Ephedra, also called Ma huang, is a plant or herb that contains ephedrine, a substance that is regulated by FDA as a drug when created chemically in the lab. As such, it is subject to strict federal standards for safety and effectiveness. However, ephedra has generally been marketed as an ingredient in dietary supplements, which are not bound by the same strict standards as drugs. Nevertheless, under a 1994 law, FDA can remove a dietary supplement from the market if it creates an unreasonable risk of illness or injury.
FDA has long regarded ephedra-based dietary supplements as potential health hazards. Substantial evidence of harm emerged in 2003, when a major study reported more than 16,000 adverse events associated with the use of ephedra-containing dietary supplements, including heart palpitations, tremors and insomnia. The study also found little evidence that ephedra is effective in boosting physical activities and weight loss -- as claimed by its promoters. FDA subsequently determined that ephedra presents an unreasonable risk of illness or injury. On April 12, 2004, the agency's final rule prohibiting the sale of dietary supplements containing ephedra went into effect.
Update: On May 14, 2007, the Supreme Court denied certiorari in the case of Nutraceutical Corp vs. von Eschenbach. The denial of certiorari means that the Supreme Court declines to review the Aug. 17, 2006, decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit that upheld FDA's 2004 regulation banning dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids. Accordingly, the Tenth Circuit's decision stands and the regulation is in full force.
L
lartinos
Guest
that stuff tweaks me out too much, i prefer clen and t3.
MorganKane
New member
get456 said:
Thats not what it says.
Its says " Amobarbital & noncontrolled active ingred." with " Amobarbital/ephedrine capsules" under other names.
Ephedrine is not listed.
S
Spartacus
Guest
which chem is used to make meth?
that's the big red flag chem
that's the big red flag chem
B
Big_BK
Guest
I still can get EPH over the counter in supp shops in my state. Walmart for cheap caffiene tabs or order them in bulk online for even cheaper (same goes for the eph too). I think its banned in most mid west states because of the meth epidemic.
footballstud
New member
centy said:
I've tried both and will take ECA over lipoflame any day of the week. Just got my ephedra from Canada the other day!
I get mega-pro vasopro ephed hcl. Google. 25mg ea. Take 2 & BOOM !!!
You may have to fax your drivers license once. They only allow like 4 boxes at a time. Very Good stuff
You may have to fax your drivers license once. They only allow like 4 boxes at a time. Very Good stuff
slamminshaun
New member
halfcenturian said:
They have an equivalent of this at my local gas station....I take 25mg, 200mg of Walgreen's caffeine generic, and 1/2 of a generic 325mg aspirin.
MorganKane
New member
get456 said:
Amobarbital (formerly known as amylobarbitone) is a drug that is a barbiturate derivative. It has sedative-hypnotic and analgesic properties. It is a white crystalline powder with no odor and a slightly bitter taste. If amobarbital is taken for extended periods of time, physical and psychological dependence can develop.
Ephedrine is legal except as a food/supplement product.
You can walk into any pharmacy and ask for it. Its a broncolaitor (not sure how to spell it). its also used in several OTC cold medicines. Cold medicines that contains ephedrine is now behind counter and you have to show ID when you buy it. You can only buy a small quantity at the time since its used to make meth.
A
ALIN
Guest
jdynasty said:
I prefer Clen over EPH
str8cubano
New member
Just like 820 said, go to CVS or walgreens. I buy Primatene (for broncho), show ID. They let you buy as many as you like. Even though it's only 12.5mg, I prefer it because I can better control my dosses. For the most cheap and trouble free way, go to Walmart. They sell caffeine cheap and IN A BOTTLE so you don't have to deal with blisters. Buy your big tank of asprin, and there you go.
centy said:
“Ma Huang (Ephedra) Variation in
Dietary Supplements”
By: Charles Curry, GET DIESEL NUTRITION founder
Name: Ephedra, Ephedra sinica, equisetina,
Commonly used names: Ma Huang, Ephedra, Ephedra sinica
What is it? Ephedra is a herb originally used to treat asthma and bronchial problems in Chinese. It has been used in Chinese medicine for over 5,000 years.
Where is it found? 40 species, grown all over the world, mainly 12 species produced in China. North American Ephedra is said to contain less ephedrine alkaloid content (not ephedrine group alkaloid content) v/s the ratios found in Chinese Ephedra. Ephedrine group alkaloids average .5 to 2.5% and up to 3.5% of the dried leaf contents. This variation of 700% is the problem when ma huang is used in dietary supplements.
What does it do? Ephedra contains ephedrine alkaloids that stimulate the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) and has a bronchial dilating effect (helps you breath better by dilating-opening the airways in the lungs). Ephedrine is also know to mildly stimulates the CNS and prevent the break down of epinephrine released by stimulation of the Central Nervous System (CNS).
A study was conducted on 10 samples of ephedra herb to determine the similarities in commercially available ephedra products compared to products containing ephedrine HCL. Ephedrine alkaloids derived from herbal sources were found to have the same effect as ephedrine HCL. The authors of this study (Gurley BJ, Gardner SF, and White LM) concluded: "the increased incidence of Ma Hung toxicity does not stem from difference in the absorption of botanical ephedrine compared with synthetic ephedrine. Rather it results from the accidental overdose often prompted by exaggerated off-label claims and a belief that “'natural' medicinal agents are inherently safe."
Ephedrine alkaloid; the same as Ephedrine HCL?
Yes and no. Ephedrine alkaloids are a group of ephedrines listed below. All ephedrine alkaloid containing plants (ephedra, sida cordifolia, etc.,) contain varying amounts of ephedrine alkaloids. Ephedrine HCL is a synthetic form of the CNS stimulating ephedrine group alkaloid called ephedrine. Pseudoephedrine HCL (found in OTC cold medication) is the synthetic form of the alkaloid pseudoephedrine, that has very little to no stimulating effect to the CNS.
Ephedrine Alkaloids:
(-) ephedrine
(+) pseudoephedrine
(-) methylephedrine
(-) norephedrine
(+) norpseudoephedrine
(+) methylpseudoephedrine
In nature, the order of content amount in total ephedrine group alkaloids found in various species of ephedra is normally 1-2-4-5-3-6.
Of the 6 main ephedrine alkaloids, I am going to discuss the two most abundant and popular: Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine
1. Ephedrine - The Alkaloid ephedrine makes up 30% to 90% of total ephedrine group alkaloids in ephedra. Ephedrine is not as good as caffeine at stimulating the CNS, but when combined with caffeine, the two work in synergy because ephedrine prevents the break down of epinephrine released by the caffeine, enhancing caffeine's CNS stimulating effects.
Ephedrine is probably the most effective herbal alkaloid at stimulating a non-active Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS). Obesity can be directly linked to an inactive SNS. Ephedrine has been proven to increase in weight loss for obese individuals, but has no effect by itself in lean individuals (lean individuals do not need SNS stimulation, they just need CNS stimulation- put more fat in the blood). Caffeine by itself keeps lean individuals lean by keeping circulating blood lipid levels higher than normal.
2. Pseudoephedrine - Pseudoephedrine is probably synthetically produced more than all other ephedrine group alkaloids put together because of its approved use in OTC respiratory formulas, and cold medications. Pseudoephedrine does not raise blood pressure and stimulate the CNS to the degree of ephedrine. I have noticed that when isolated away from ephedrine it has little to no CNS stimulation at all. When combined synthetically or naturally with ephedrine, and the other ephedrine alkaloids, pseudoephedrine increases the CNS stimulating properties of ephedrine. This is why all ephedrine group alkaloid content is now required on a dietary supplement label.
With the wide variation of ephedrine alkaloid concentration in dietary supplements, it is possible to get a product with 18mg of ephedrine alkaloids, and 30mg of the other ephedrine group alkaloids without it being listed. A few companies still list ephedrine content as ephedrine alkaloids, and you cannot tell if they are referring to total group alkaloids, or just ephedrine alkaloids. I have also seen companies not list ephedrine content at all because it’s "proprietary", meaning they include that in their secret formula.
Why is this important? Say you tried an ephedra-containing product that consisted of 20mg of ephedrine alkaloids per serving (even though the product really contained 20mg of ephedrine group alkaloids with 10mg of the alkaloid ephedrine). After about 6 weeks you decided to take a different ephedra containing dietary supplement, and the label reads 20mg of ephedrine alkaloids per serving. Same as before right.....WRONG! Come to find out that product may really contain 20mg of ephedrine alkaloids, twice the amount of ephedrine as the previous product. You may take it the same way as before, but now you are at a greater risk for side effects or complications because you are getting 20mg of ephedrine per serving not 10mg.
Ephedra use in dietary supplements is not standardized. The FDA puts limits on the amount of ephedrine group alkaloids dietary supplements can suggest for use in one day (100mg in any 24 hours). But 100mg of the alkaloid ephedrine in 24 hours is way more dangerous than 100mg of ephedrine group alkaloids where less than 50% of the total alkaloids are ephedrine. Both products meet the FDA's limit because they do not put a specific limit on ephedrine alkaloid itself, just total group alkaloids. This variation is why I believe some products seem to be way stronger as pre-workout energizers than other because they all have varying amounts of ephedrine alkaloids in the total ephedrine group alkaloid content. The product with more ephedrine alkaloid is going to make you more jittery, having greater CNS stimulating properties.
As mentioned previously, with about 40 species of ephedra grown all over the world, and depending on species, parts used (aerial, stem, leaf or a combination of stem and leaf), harvesting, and extraction techniques, you will get varying amounts of ephedrine group alkaloid mixtures. Ephedrine is usually in the range of 30 to 90% of the total ephedrine group alkaloids. Currently there are USP standards being developed for some of the more popular dietary supplement ingredients, and hopefully this will lead to the requirement of ephedrine alkaloid content on supplement labels v/s the ephedrine group alkaloid content. This is the reason I believe doctors and the FDA would recommend the use of drugs to help someone, v/s herbs because from their
viewpoint, drugs produce more side effects than herbs, but drugs dosage can be made accustomed to the individual using the product in accordance to age, weight and sex. Also drugs are standardized for a more exact USP weight and variation from product to product and pill to pill than herbs.
ONE CAPSULE/TABLET HIGH EPHEDRINE SUPPLEMENTS
When a product has 20 to 25mg or more of ephedrine in one tablet, you cannot adjust the dosage in proportion to weight. At 25mg of ephedrine per tablet or capsule you are putting more ephedrine in the smallest dose possible than needed by first time users, and smaller individuals. Someone who weighs 110 pounds should not consume ephedrine in the same dosage as someone 220lbs. Someone 220lbs does not necessarily need 50mg of ephedrine at one time either. At a jump from 25mg to 75mg ephedrine, you have a huge variation from 1 capsule to 3 capsules.
Dietary supplement companies bragging that they have a product containing high or the highest amount of ephedrine alkaloids per capsule, (20mg to 70mg plus) are going to destroy the use of Ephedra in dietary supplements. With that much ephedrine in one capsule there is no way to take 1/2 the recommended dose to assess tolerance, or to adjust dosage to bodyweight, or time of day of consumption. I doubt you will get to bed before 3am if you consume 25 to 70mg of ephedrine alkaloids before a workout after 12pm in the afternoon, and you weigh less than 140lbs, and/or have never used ephedrine products before. Some supplement companies are not going to voluntary not recommend their product to anyone or recommend a less total daily dosage depending on bodyweight because this would mean less sales, and less sales mean less profit, and less profit means less advertising, and less advertising leads to less sales, etc.
High dose ephedrine manufactures, should have minimal body weight requirements to use their "one super ephedrine serving capsule" supplement. It only takes one incident of a teenager or kid, getting into a bottle of these high ephedrine content supplements to take 2 capsules, and its over. The kid may be facing death, or serious heart problems as well as anyone under about 140lbs, who has never used these products. If you see Ephedra (Mahung, ephedrine) banned for use in dietary supplement, it will because of the inconsistency in ephedrine group alkaloid content from product to product, and/or because one of those one capsule high ephedrine content supplements caused a adverse side effect in someone. I do not understand how some manufactures can take pride in putting 50mg plus of ephedrine group alkaloids in one capsule, and not listing ephedrine content. Or setting strict standards and usage directions for individuals under a certain bodyweight, or prohibiting the use of those products from individuals whom have never used ephedra products before.
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str8cubano
New member
no shit. I haven't seen it but i'll look for it next time. thanks for headz up8and20 said:
milo hobgoblin
New member
ya I use it.. you can get it from Hi tech..
most stores also carry the old school vaso pro gel tabs.. good stuff
most stores also carry the old school vaso pro gel tabs.. good stuff
footballstud
New member
8and20 said:
I bought a few boxes at CVS the other day. Just showed my ID, and they allowed up to 6 boxes at once!
daveyboy2345
New member
centy said:
Not in the amount found in 2 or 3 tablets of Bronkaid. Now trying to get high on cough syrup (DM) with added guaifenesin can make you sick, so your ok.
gunslinger2
New member
It is a state by state thing, its legal here in Tennessee and sold at truck stops and such. But you are correct in that the amount per tab has dropped to 12.5 mg and the price has more than doubled.
SpeedFreak5
New member
This is what I use. Its got caffine to so all I need is the asprin for an ECA.
Ephedra 5 - fallow the link then do a search for it.
<a href="http://www.shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=151357&u=99244&m=4303&urllink=&afftrack=">ephedrine</a>
Ephedra 5 - fallow the link then do a search for it.
<a href="http://www.shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=151357&u=99244&m=4303&urllink=&afftrack=">ephedrine</a>
SpeedFreak5
New member
as I understand it ephedra comes from Ma hung and has both ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in it. just a few more chemical processes and you have ephedrine another few and you have pseudo. ephedrine being 17 alki which is what they banned. But I could be miss informed.
eClenbuterol
Forum Sponsor
Epherdine is a man made chemical Ephedra is a "plant" I think there is roughly 60 species.
SpeedFreak5
New member
I think I was reading on wikipedia about it. I wanted to know if it was water soluable and read that both ehedrine and pseudo are in ephedra it's a matter of a few chemical processes. Now I know it's wiki so someone that's like me could have wrote that. Just something I read.
Maybe later I can look it up again and post it. But for now I am to catch up on some home work.
apple09
New member
in michigan you have to sign and show your ID buying any product with ephedrine it operation "Meth Bust" and there are signs at every pharmacy, you can only buy a certain amount and they record it so you cannot go place to place buying and stocking up the stuff.. hope this helps
