Posted by Jef on February 24, 1997 at 18:56:31:
In Reply to: Re: PRIMO , not good for taper? posted by moonface on February 24, 1997 at 16:52:09:
: :
: : : Adding mild anabolics at the end of your cycle does not really allow your hormones to bounce back. Your body still registers them, even if they are mild like DECA and PRIMO. It is different when your functions are already suppressed. Using Primo alone, from start to end, should give you a NO SHUTDOWN cycle. Short of that, they don't benifit your hormonal profile much when tapering. They are however good to let you shed the water held due to stronger androgens. Lets say your on a cycle of Anadrol. You gained 30lb. At least 10 of those will be pissed out the first week your off. But if you do a few weeks of Deca or Primo, you body sheds the water while still storing protein on a steroid. When you drop the deca, you don't fall nearly as far.
: : Good post Moonface, lets go over this.
: : I was under the impression that since Primo didn't mess with the HPTA axis,
: : it would NOT suppress endogenous test levels (as you have said in the above
: : post). Are you saying though, that once test levels ARE depressed, using
: : Primo will keep the body from re-establishing its normal test levels? Perhaps
: : some other kind of feedback system?
: : Thanks for your input.
: : LBM
: I was also curious on that point and recently did both some looking into and asking about. From the way I understand it, when you start a cycle with regular amounts (200mg/week) of primo, your body will not register it as an abundance of androgen and will not shut down pruduction. As doses increase, primo can shut down production. No we are in a different situation when production is depressed already from another steroid and primo is simply used in its place. The Body will read that it has its normal or better androgen level and will not send messages to pump up production. I assume a lower than normal androgen level will kick it back into producing but with the primo it still thinks it's ok. I have personally heard of someone using primo in this manner and his testicles did not bounce back untill the primo was dicontinued. This is what prompted my curiosity in the first place.
: You must remember though things are different for different people.
Now reading your previous posts, I have much respect for what you have to say moonface, you do know what you are talking about. That said, I do disagree with you here.
From what I have read in the new research looking in to it, the disruption of the HPTA is from the extra estrogen created during the cycle, and that the body in fact has very little ability to actually sense androgen level. Thus adding a non-aromatizable
anabolic such as primo or a low amount of a low aromatizing substance such as deca will allow the body's natural test production to come back up higher, albeit not to fully normal levels.
This is only what I have read, and I'm not entirely sure it is correct.
In my particular case, I seem to be able to come straight off a test cycle with no hcg or clomid and very minimal tapering and not lose a thing. The only time I did lose was after a cycle of anadrol, and even that was mostly water I lost.
But again, thats just me and obviously not everyone is like that, I guess I'm just lucky :)