Re: Hey PA- Could we continue our tribestan discussion please here sir?

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: : I know the earlier part of our previous discussion is waaaaay down the page at the : : bottom just above the posting form so lets continue here. Rather than go into the : : hypothalamus/testicular axis and the reasons why I think tribestan increases spermatogenesis : : (increased GnRH results in increased LH, ABP, and testosterone?), I would very much : : like an honest critique about this article found on the net. In particular if you are : : familiar with the studies mentioned and the sponsors of those studies (Sopharm?). : : Thanks man- I value your opinion. Here is the article excerpt: : : ...Early studies using animals clearly demonstrated Tribestan's effects on some : : key reproductive functions. Among the findings in rats treated for 7-20 days : : with moderate-to-high oral doses were marked increases in spermatogenesis : : (sperm production) and improvements in the quality, motility and survival time : : of sperm. Studies on boars administered Tribestan at 70 mg per kilogram of : : bodyweight per day for 10 days demonstrated a dramatic recovery of libido : : and improved sexual reflex time, even in those animals with established : : prolonged impotence. : : The research of greatest interest to bodybuilders and other athletes are clinical : : studies conducted at the Chemical Pharmaceutical Institute. Tests on healthy : : men ages 28-45 demonstrated that three tablets (250 mg each) taken for just : : five days increased testosterone levels by a significant 30% or more (Milanov, : : Maleeva and Taskov, Sopharma documentation, 1981). That would help : : explain the popularity of the product with world-class Bulgarian athletes, : : especially before competition. : : The mechanism by which Tribestan produces this effect is believed to be : : through stimulation of the secretion of leutinizing hormone (LH, a : : gonad-stimulating hormone produced by the pituitary gland). The only catch in : : the study was that in some cases, an increase in the level of estradiol occurred : : as well. While it could enhance growth-hormone secretion and overall mass : : increases, this could bode poorly for those who are highly susceptible to : : gynecomastia (male development of female-type breast tissue) or insulin : : resistance. In women, follicle-stimulating hormone, but not LH, and estradiol, : : but not testosterone, were increased. This differential effect allows Tribestan : : to be effectively used by both sexes to stimulate reproductive function. : : Additional studies sponsored by the Chemical Pharmaceutical Institute were : : carried out on 212 males, ages 14-60, at three sites: the Higher Military : : Medical Institute, and the institutes of Endocrinology, Gerontology and : : Geriatrics, and Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Bulgarian Medical : : Academy. All individuals studied had reproductive disorders of some type, : : ranging from impotence to hypogonadism to infertility. Tribestan was : : administered in doses generally ranging from 750-1,500 mg per day for an : : average of 30-60 days. : : The results confirmed the previous work in that testosterone levels increased : : in many cases, as did libido, frequency and strength of erections and the : : sexual reflexes (recovery from sexual activity). Other positive changes : : observed in a number of cases were a reduction of cholesterol and positive : : psychological effects such as improved mood and increased self-confidence. : : No adverse effects were noted in any of the clinical studies, and additional : : research using animals demonstrated no adverse effects on the central nervous : : or cardiovascular systems. Administration of Tribestan had a mild diuretic : : effect in several cases in the human trials. : : Toxicity was found to be extremely low both in acute studies (the oral dose : : required to kill 50% of rats tested, the LD subscript 50, is more than 10 : : grams per kilogram of bodyweight) and over extended periods (23 months at : : oral doses of up to 150 mg per kilogram of bodyweight per day). No known : : negative effects presently exist when Tribestan is used as a nutritional : : supplement or when used as adjunctive therapy (under a physician's guidance) : : in the absence of other prescribed medications. : : Right now, fewer than a handful of products in the U.S. contain any : : preparation of the Tribulus plant, but that's likely to change soon. Although : : m&f writer Mauro Di Pasquale, MD, rates Tribestan as questionable in his : : Bodybuilding Supplement Review based on the lack of significant scientific : : substantiation of any anabolic effects in athletes, I'm willing to go out on a limb : : on this one and suggest that it appears to have real potential for bodybuilders. : : Time will tell. : : SPECIFIC PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTIVITIES OF TRIBULUS : : MALES - Increases libido (sexual desire); improves strength of : : erection and spermatogenesis (formation and development of sperm); : : may increase the level of testosterone (a hormone secreted by the : : testes, the most potent natural anabolic-androgenic hormone). : : FEMALES - Increases libido; improves ovulation effect; decreases the : : vasomotor symptoms accompanying menopause; reduces apathy and : : aggressiveness. : : Before joining muscle & fitness, Jim Wright, PhD, served as chief of the : : Exercise Science Branch, U.S. Army Fitness School. He also directed : : research in exercise physiology at the U.S. Army Research Institute of : : Environmental Medicine and has participated in many investigations of : : muscle physiology and performance. The author of more than 60 : : professional publications, Wright consults for several federal and state : : agencies and athletic organizations, and serves as technical reviewer for : : professional journals. In the early '70s, he was a National Collegiate : : Powerlifting Champion. : : The above is an excerpt of an article. It mentions studies that prove elevated : : testosterone from oral tribestan doses. Please comment- THANKS. : : AJ : If these results were so striking why didn't they publish them in a peer reviewed journal? : This reminds me of the mysterious Avena Sativa studies from the "Institute of Sexology" in Paris. : You got to learn to be very critical of these things especially when the results are "in house" : from some obscure institution. : If you want to be convinced by this that is your choice. And don't call me sir, to you its : all knowing, almighty god of anabolism and sexual deviancy. thanx : : PA

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