Posted by great white on March 19, 1997 at 14:22:55:
In Reply to: Re:Another 2 cents from ...... posted by Another Jeff on March 19, 1997 at 11:13:19:
: : : : The other day I was reading the latest issue of MMK2, in fact a letter from someone asking about using creatine and metformin (Glucophage) at the same time. The answer was disconcerting to me: the two products would fight each other, one raising blood sugar levels, while the other would diminish it. Well, I never heard anything about creatine having this sort of 'insulin mimicker' properties. Since soon I will try the BodyOpus diet, and I will use metformin to speed up reaching the ketogenic state, I'm concerned about having to stop taking creatine while dieting. And this leads to another point: most probably many guys out there are taking creatine along with vanadyl sulfate, wich is another insulin-mimicker (far less effective than metformin, though). Would those folks been experiencing lessening effects from these stack ??
: : You gotta wonder what they are thinking over there sometimes! Maybe they just think about their money too much and feel that idiots like us will believe anything they spew out. Metformin in designed to INHIBIT sugar rushes by binding it at the small intestine. As far as I can see this would shunt the insulin rise that you want taking creatine. I've made and taken met. and I only took it with meals. Anarchy in the USA!
: Creatine does not cause an increase in sugar and there
: is synergism not antagonism. You take creatine with
: a sugary drink to cause an insulin spike because of
: the theory that insulin will cause a greater uptake
: of the creatine into the cells along with the glucose
: and aminos but creatine doesn't cause the sugar
: increase. I find it hard to believe the gang at MM2k
: would make such a blatant error- no offence but
: could you have misread the article?
: If, as you say, Metformin mimicks insulin by causing
: a greater uptake of glucose, aminos and creatine
: into the cells, then it might be good to take a high
: glycemic carb drink with creatine and metformin as
: a post workout recovery drink. The insulin and metformin
: would both work together to increase refueling and
: creatine uptake. This idea only works if metformin
: acts as an insulin mimicker. If Animal is right and
: the metformin inhibits sugar by binding inside the
: small intestine, then this theory is all wrong.
: Another Jeff
Metformin has two mechs of action. The first is
inhibition of glucose uptake at the gut and
increasing the sensitivity of insulin receptors.
In this way, Met decreases blood sugars by not
allowing to enter the blood and by sensitizing
insulin receptors to take allow more glucose, aa,s
and creatine into cells on the same amount of endogenous
insulin. I think it would be wise to drink a carbo
drink, wait 1/2 hour, then take the met, creatine
and protein. This would allow the insulin spike
and the greatest effect of the insulin with the Met.