Posted by APF on March 14, 1997 at 15:20:25:
In Reply to: Click here for DNP synthesis information posted by APF on March 14, 1997 at 12:58:50:
Thought that while I was posting info on DNP, I'd post the following DejaNews-retrieved DNP articles from mfw:
[Begin paste]
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO GET DNP?
I can get DNP but how much do you want and what
are you willing to spend. At 3.5 mg/kg at 200lb
man needs about 320mg DNP. You'd better have a fuckin'
good scale because 10mg/kg will kill you. But then
again I don't know why someone would want to take
this because I would only cell it to a 'chemist'.
I figure 10g would run you $30 plus shipping and
handling which is probably $6.50. I have a shipment
on the way. 10g should last you about a month.
data from geninfo-lib
PESTICIDE NAME: Dinoseb
______________
Trade Name(s): Sinox, DNBP, Dyanap, Premerge, Amaize
_____________
Manufacturer(s): Hoechst AG(West Germany)
_______________
A.H. Marks & Co., Ltd. (Great Britain)
I. Basic information
__________________
A. Molecular structure: C10H12N2O5
___________________
B. Chemical name: 2-(sec-Butyl)-4,6-dinitrophenol
_____________
C. Derivatives: no information available
____________
D. Molecular weight: 240 g/mole
________________
E. Solubility in water: slightly soluble
___________________
F. Common physical appearance: yellow flammable solid formulated as
1)oily solution of the free acid, 2)emulsifiable liquid of the covalent
acetate, or 3)emulsifiable liquid of partly ionized amine or NH4+
salts.
G. Oral LD50(rat): 37-50 mg/kg
______________
H. Pesticide classification: substituted phenolic herbicide
________________________
I. Restricted use list (N.Y.): yes
_________________________
EPA priority pesticide list: no
___________________________
J. Crop use: broadleaf weeds, nutsedge, annual grasses, apple,
peach, pear, nectarine, apricot, cherry, plum, prune, grape, potato,
annual weeds on beans, broadleaves and grasses under clear plastic
mulch for cucumbers, muskmelon, watermelon, annual weeds on peas,
potatoes, pumpkin
II. Text
____
Dinoseb is a substituted phenolic herbicide, widely used in New
York state on a variety of fruit and vegetable crops. There is very
little information in the scientific literature concerning dinoseb in
the soil. It is considered to be of short residence time in the soil
and there is some disagreement as to its mobility. Data concerning
degradation rates was not available.
Work by Lewis, et al. (1978) indicated that addition of dinoseb to
loamy sand and silty clay loam soils did not affect CO2 evolution from
the soil nor did it influence alfalfa decomposition thus it was
concluded that dinoseb has no effect on microbial population.
Additionally, dinoseb did not lessen the formation of inorganic N,
P-solubilization or S-oxidation. Dinoseb did reduce the algal
population in loamy sandy by 90%.
III. Soils information
_________________
A. Degradation and transformation
______________________________
-short residual in soil(1)
B. Adsorption and transport
________________________
-immobile(1)
-mobility class IV where class V=very mobile(2)
IV. References
__________
1.Gardner, R.C. and R.L. McKellar. J.Agric.FoodChem. 1980. 28. 258-61.
________________
2.Helling, C.S., P.C. Kearney and M. Alexander. 1971. Advances in
___________
Agronomy.23:147-240.
________
3.Hassall, K.A. 1982. The Chemistry of Pesticides.
___________________________
Weinheim:VerlagChemie.
4.Lewis, J.A., G.C. Papavizas and T.S. Hora. 1978. Soil.Biol.Biochem.
_________
10. 137-41.
>I have received lots of E-mail over the last few days and have realized
>the error of my ways. I apologize for not posting this info before. I'm
>new to this newsgroup but not to bodybuilding. The JAMA you want is vol.
>101, 1933 pg. 193. It looks like the safe dose is 3-5 mg/kg/day.
>Metabolism returns to baseline within 36 hours after last dose as the
>mitochondrial membranes are cleared of this chemical.
>To buy it you could go to the library and get a book called chem sources
>and look up dinitrophenol. Call all the companies that make it and order
>what you think is the best deal based on purity, shipping costs (shipping
>it with water is cheaper because it reduces the flammability), and price.
>I have seen 250 grams for $8 on up.
>If you are an idiot (the more frustrated you become when you try to do
>anything that involves your brain, the more of an idiot you are) then
>don't do this. Because idiots seldom respond to requests like this, it
>has gotten much more difficult to get chemicals from the major companies.
>Don't tell them you are going to eat whatever they send you! Tell them the
>DNP is for research. For example:
>1 - I am studying benzene ring substitution reaction mechanisms
>2 - I am elucidating the mechanism for uncoupling oxidative
>phosphorylation in mitochondria in yeast for crying out loud!
Ok folks you wanted it you got it. Go for it. But write your will
beforehand just to be safe.
PA
Subject: DNP, Insulin, and ATP-sensitive Potassium channels Ion channels are membrane proteins that control the flux of ions KATP channels exist in most excitable cells. They are regulated by Thus, the KATP channel couples nutrient metabolism to the membrane o Increase in blood glucose -> increase in glucose metabolism -> o Channel CLOSED: cell depolarized, Ca++ uptake, insulin exocytosis. KATP channels play an important role in the control of vascular o KATP channel BLOCKED -> vascular tone increases. o KATP channel ACTIVATED -> vascular tone decreases. Besides being regulated by intracellular signals, potassium channels o KATP BLOCKED -> more strength o KATP ACTIVATED -> less strength Drugs which block KATP channels: tolbutamide, glyburide, glibenclamide. Drugs which activate KATP channels: Prostaglandin E2 and I2, adenosine, Drugs which activate K channels: pinacidil, cromakalim. Mitochondria also contain a K+ channel that causes rapid K+ uptake DNP What happens when someone takes the decoupler dinitrophenol (DNP)? Insulin is needed to facilitate the uptake of glucose into cardiac, This is why, when one takes DNP, one also needs to take exogenous Since the KATP channel remains open, vascular and muscular tone It would seem that an antidote for DNP might be anything that causes Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll Now, before I start, a caveat: I am in no way endorsing the use of this DNP can fucking kill you. The side effects range from bad to worse. Ok, time to get off the soapbox. I have actually had the DNP for a while but only got around to using it Ok, so dried the shit, cut it half and half with corn starch and put it into Had some left over cytomel in the drug droor in my room which is a necessary Ok, so I started the DNP experiment last Sunday. I was kind of scared to Now, I had originally planned to use DNP in conjunction with Bodyopus since is that it makes you just crave carbs. I have been following a cyclical But, I couldn't stay away from carbs. I'd be ok during the day but I'd So, on Wednesday, I moved towards a calorie controlled (about 2000 cal) My second realization about DNP is that, as I expected, it makes you lethargic So, like the dumbass I am, I figured I'd see what taking the ECA stack The net effect of DNP is a depressant although it's not through central nervous Ok, I was feeling really bad by Thursday. DNP stays in your system (according Anyway, like I said, I had lots o'DNP and some ECA in my system Thursday. So, the body composition record. Holy Shit! With minimal dieting (hell, no dieting), maybe 30' total of cardio So, here's the plan for the next few weeks. I really don't want to do another Oh, my Bodyopus things are finally archived although it's not my WWW page. My stuff is at: www.solid.net/lowcarb Lyle McDonald, CSCS (if my CEU report gets to NSCA headquarters in time) >With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a Actually the combination of DNP and Humalin R would allow [End Paste] -APF
From: [email protected] (Robert Ames)
Date: 1996/07/08
Message-Id: <8JL4xgxyYk/[email protected]>
Organization: Internet Canada Corporation
Reply-To: Robert Ames
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
Article Segment 1 of 2
(Get All 2 Segments)
[Some of the following is speculative. Caveat lector.]
across an otherwise impermeable cell membrane. Potassium (K)
channels were first decribed by Noma [1] in 1983, and later in 1991
the ATP-sensitive K channel (KATP) was described by the same
researcher [2]. Potassium channels determine cell membrane potential.
the intracellular level of ATP as well as by various nucleotide
diphosphates, pH and lactate concentrations. The activity of KATP
channels is inhibited by increasing the intracellular ATP
concentration. Closure of these channels in response to glucose
metabolism depolarises the cell, stimulating voltage-dependent
electrical activity, and calcium ion (Ca) entry. In the pancreatic
beta cells, an increase in blood sugar level leads to an elevated
ATP/ADP ratio, which in turn inhibits KATP channels, so as to alter
the membrane potential and cause insulin release. It is accompanied
by increases in respiratory rate, pyridine and flavin nucleotide
reduction state, and intracellular pH [3].
potential.
increase in intracell ATP -> inhibition of KATP channel.
tone [4]. Polarization following potassium channel activation
(opening) results in lessened calcium influx and smooth muscle
relaxation.
may also be regulated by membrane potential. Thus, in excitable
cells in the heart, muscle, and nervous system, voltage-gated
potassium channels are activated during an action potential; the
activities of these potassium channels determine to a large extent
the shape of the action potential, hence the strength of the
signaling.
lemakalim.
when open [5].
===
Blood glucose will result in increased metabolism, but the level of
ATP in the cell does not increase! In fact, it is depleted. So in
this case, the KATP channel is not inhibited, and it stays open.
Calcium is not taken into the cell, and insulin is not released.
The person taking DNP has in effect given himself temporary
diabetes.
skeletal, and adipose tissue, and to convert glucose to glycogen in
the liver. It is anti-proteolytic and protects against the various
ailments commonly seen in diabetics, such as vision problems and
polyneuropathy. Not coincidentally, the same problems can result
from ingesting DNP.
insulin.
relax. Probably blood pressure will decrease. Strength will
diminish.
the KATP channel to close, for example the drug glibenclamide.
References:
Subject: My DNP experience
From: [email protected] (Lyle McDonald)
Date: 1997/01/04
Message-Id:
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
[More Headers]
get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
DNP experience.
potentially deadly chemical to anybody. I used it because:
1. I'm a guinea pig
b. I'm fucking stupid and self-destructive right now over a recent
relationship that ended a week or two ago (it's a long ass story but
for 4 weeks I was dating an exotic dancer whose martial arts instructor,
bodybuilders, could stomp yours truly into the ground ex-boyfriend I
work with. Like I said, a long story)
c. I had some and didn't want to let it go to waste
Duchaine is suggesting combining it with insulin making this stack
potentially the most dangerous in the world of bodybuilding as either
chemical can kill you with one fuckup. DO NOT TAKE DNP LIGHTLY OR
AS A JOKE. If you have any doubts or concerns about taking it, do me
a favor, DON'T. This isn't a game.
due to the afforementioned relationship situation. So, I got a capsule
filler at the local granola head store, got a gram scale at the smoke shop
(where all fine drug paraphenalia are sold). Actually, finding an accurate
scale was the hardest part of this whole thing. I called every school supply
store in the city and nobody knew where to get one. Then it ocurred to me:
hey, who else uses gram scales? Drug dealers, that's who. And, who sells
drug related stuff? Smoke shops. Balance beam scales are fucking
expensive, about $150 for the lowest model. I got the $30 50 gram model
since I can't imagine weighing out 500 grams of anything.
capsules as instructed. Now I have a vitamin E bottle filled with
10 grams of DNP which is enough for about 25 days straight useage at
400mg per dose.
additive as the body temp increase from DNP totally shuts down T4 -> T3
conversion in the liver. But, using Cytomel + DNP won't make you go
hypothyroidal since you are just bringing yourself up to normal levels.
take that first pill since I did know what I was potentially getting myself
into with this shit. But, I must forge ahead. After stalling about 10', I
finally
just walked into my room (2 DNP capsules sitting on my bedstand) and slammed
them down without thinking about it. No fear, right? Took 100 mcg of Cytomel
along with it.
it's a diet I know I can live with. My first realization about DNP (other than
a. you sweat like a fucking pig. I had to run a fan in my room to keep from
spontaneously combusting and woke up every morning this week with
my sheets soaked in sweat. Now there are good ways and bad ways to soak
one's sheets with sweat. This wasn't a good way.
b. you stink like a fucking goat. The worst is training. It's like I was
exuding
this shit from my pores, a very chemical smell. Now, I have a pretty potent
smell anyhow when I train but this was a new level of stench. I'm surprised
my clients could put up with any of it.)
ketogenic
diet for over 36 weeks with no food control problems whatsoever during the
week. I've starved myself on 900 calories no problem. Carbs don't even
enter my mind from Sunday night to Friday afternoon under normal
circumstances. And, seeing as I spent 2 weeks off of Bodyopus eating crap
over the holidays, all my carb cravings were well satiated.
get these
cravings at midnight (taking DNP about 10 pm before bed) and go raid the pantry.
Well, 75% fat calories and high carbs do not mix. I asked Duchaine and he told
me that DNP raises levels of Neuropeptide Y (NPY) in the brain which causes
carb cravings so I have to conclude that DNP + ketogenic diets do not mix.
Isocaloric/Zone type of diet which worked much better. I still tend to overeat
carbs and cals but, when your metabolic rate is up 50%, it's really not that
big a deal.
as hell. DNP works by depleting Type I fibers of ATP so you have no energy for
anything low intensity (although training is generally not affected
assuming that
you can drag your ass to the gym in the first place). I just felt
shitty. Also, DNP
does not blunt hunger like ECA. But, again, at 50% increase in BMR, eating a
couple hundred more calories is no big deal.
would do to
me. My biggest fear was raising body temp too high. ECA/Clen and DNP work
through independent mechanisms and I wondered if the body temp increases
would be synergistic or not. I don't think they were but it was an interesting
experience.
system modulation. ECA is a major CNS stimulant. Also, to be a real dumbfuck,
I added some yohimbe fuel to keep alpha receptors in check since ECA has some
alpha agonist activity as well (NB: overstimulating alpha agonists has a major,
major side effect. It makes your dick not work. I found this out the
hard (err,
soft) way. Just be warned).
to Robert Ames) for 36 hours so I'm not convinced that Dan's dosing schedule
(every 24 hours) is ideal as there is a 12 hour period when you have twice
the recommended dose active in your body. But, this makes a nice failsafe to
avoid nasty side effects: nobody can take DNP more than 5 days straight
because you get tired of feeling like total shit all the time. It's possible
that dosing every 36 hours would allow you to take it indefinitely but this
isn't necessarily a good thing as the negative effects of constant ATP depletion
(like cataracts which apparently occurs from ATP depletion in your eyes) would
increase with time. So a dose every 24 might be ideal.
And I was drinking a lot of diet coke so caffeine intake was massive. And I
was severely dehydrated from sweating so much and DNP blunts your thirst
mechanism. All of this added up to giving me a resting heart rate of 132
(that's not a typo) beats per minute. I didn't get my blood pressure measured
but I"m sure it was high. I'm surprised I didn't have a fucking stroke. I
probably deserved to have one just for being a dumbass (nature's way of
thinning the herd. Darwinism at work for you).
Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
---------------------------------------------------------
Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
(warm-up and cool down before weights), about 2.5 hours total of weight
training this week, I still dropped almost 2 lbs of bodyfat. Now, the decrease
in lean body mass is somewhat worrisome but I attribute most of it to
dehydration. Since I was stronger on Friday than on Monday (same workout,
heavier poundages, same reps), I don't feel that I lost any of the small amount
of LBM I have. I don't really look like I lost that much fat but, seeing
as most
of what I've got is smack dab on my midsection, I'm not too surprised. This is
where the biggest change in skinfolds happened anyway which is fine with me.
I'm still not quite to cut abs but I'm getting there.
cycle of DNP just yet (esp since I don't have that much and haven't had time
to figure out where to get more). So, I figure it this way. I know I can
use Bodyopus with some ass kicking training in the gym to put on a decent
amount of LBM each week with minimal fat gain. So, I figure on doing a week
or three of Bodyopus training at above maintenance calories to put on a pound
or two of lean with maybe .5 lbs of fat. Then, I can use DNP or dieting to
cut down for a week or two and sort of stair step down in bodyfat while
increasing in muscle mass. I had considered doing 1 week of mass training
with Bodyopus alternated with 1 week of dieting with DNP and isocaloric
but I'm not sure the body can switch gears like that so quickly. We'll see.
Thanks to Dave Skinner (who started the lowcarb-l list for discussion of
training on lowcarb diets like BO/AD or the Zone and put my stuff on a page.)
To subscribe to the lowcarb-l list (Jeff Krabbe is there as well) send
email to "[email protected]" with the message 'subscribe' in the body.
Subject: Re: My DNP experience
From: [email protected] (DDuchaine)
Date: 1997/01/09
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
[More Headers]
>better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP?
both (mass and fat loss). And for some (as yet) unexplained
there seems to be a significant muscle mass increase when
ceasing DNP. One user gained 30 pounds within 2 weeks
and less than 10 pounds was fat. One postulation is an
increase of mitochandia in the skeletal muscle.